Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli, Founder and Principal Consultant for Throughline HR LLC, and William Walsh, Salesforce and AI Recruitment Lead at Harvey Nash.
Join us as we chat about what Salesforce employers are looking for in new hires and how to get your career started.
You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli and William Walsh.
Over the past few years, the role of the admin has changed a lot. It’s no longer about how many certifications you have or how many users you can manage. While those skills are still important, being a great Salesforce Admin is much more about how you put that knowledge into action to support core business processes and generate value for your organization.
So how do you stand out from the crowd? That’s what I wanted to talk about with Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli and William Walsh. As recruiters, they see the Salesforce Admin job market from both sides: what it’s like when you’re looking for a role and what employers are asking for when they hire.
Increasingly, it’s not just about what you can do in Salesforce, but how you can connect it to the business and make an impact.
The number one thing that Maria looks for in a Salesforce Admin is requirements literacy. “It’s not just being able to take a set of orders and execute it, but really be able to fine-tune that,” she says. “Push back, make recommendations, be in front of what’s happening and have that longer future vision, knowing that so many of these runways are going to be short with AI.”
Showing you have that skill is tricky, but it starts with how you talk about your experience. Are you describing features, or are you talking about the benefits? Don’t just list outcomes; talk about impact. You need to show that you can think bigger than what you’re building and understand how it fits with larger organizational goals.
William urges job seekers to spend real, face-to-face time in the Salesforce community. At this point, everybody has shiny, AI-polished LinkedIn profiles and resumes. But meeting someone and making a connection with them can be so much more powerful than sitting in front of your computer mass-applying to every job opening you come across.
“This ecosystem is super welcoming, and everybody wants to see everybody succeed,” William says. “So go to some user groups, some local events, and you’ll see how quickly people around you start to root for you and start to put your resume in front of the people they know.”
Maria and William have a ton of great tips for interviews and navigating the Salesforce Admin job market, so make sure to listen to the full episode. And while you’re at it, subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday.
Mike:
The Salesforce admin job market looks a lot different than it did a few years ago. So, what are employers actually looking for right now? And how do you make sure your resume, experience, and interview skills line up with that? Well, today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, I’m talking with Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli, founder of Throughline HR, and William Walsh, who leads Salesforce and AI recruitment at Harvey Nash. We get into why certifications alone aren’t enough, how industry experience can help you stand out, and why curiosity and communication matter so much once you get into the interview. So, whether you’re looking for your first admin job or your next admin, we’re also going to tell you about where it’s worth spending your time. With that, let’s get Maria and William on the podcast. So, Maria and William, welcome to the podcast.
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
Thank you so much for having.
William Walsh:
Thank you. Thank you for having us.
Mike:
This is going to be exciting. I have not had two people on in the job space ever, so I go from zero to two, which is smart. But Maria, let’s start with you. Tell us a little bit about what you do in the job recruiting, job placement space.
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
Absolutely. Well, thanks so much for having us. My name is Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli. I am the founder and CEO and principal consultant for Throughline HR LLC. And very much in the vein of what we’re talking about, this is my new solopreneurship venture launched in the last two months in response to everything that’s happening in the job market. I’ve done every side of the recruiting, staffing, hired and being hired from doing Salesforce recruiting at Robert Half, supporting them, Protiviti, staff augmentation to going in-house with Vicasso, formerly Internet Creations, helping build both professional services and their ISV side. I worked at Salesforce directly in workforce development in Salesforce Talent Alliance under alliances and channels and helped get employer commitments to continuing to grow the ecosystem, investing in that top of the funnel Salesforce talent, building programs to help bring people in, admins, BAs, developers.
And now I am working all different roles, but still very much in touch with the Salesforce ecosystem, still working with so many of the amazing partners that I’ve built relationships with over the years, supporting outsource hiring, staffing, job coaching, and career guidance.
Mike:
Wow. So, a few things.
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
Just a couple things.
Mike:
William, how about yourself?
William Walsh:
Yeah, I don’t know if I’m as impressive as Maria, but I’ll try to keep up as we go along here. But I lead our Salesforce and AI recruitment practice at Harvey Nash. So, here, what I basically do is work with companies across not only the Salesforce ecosystem, but multiple CRMs as we continue to grow. And that ranges to help them build out their teams of admins, business analysts, all the way up to architects, AI specialists, data focused people and leadership roles as well. The neat thing about what I do is I work really closely with both sides of the market. So, I’m talking to not only hiring managers for what they need for their teams, but also speaking with Salesforce professionals every day on what they’re seeing in the market and where they want to take their careers next. So, I think I get a pretty unique view of the market from both the employer and candidate side.
And a big part of my job is understanding obviously where those two things line up. So, hope we can give everybody some good information today as to what employers are really looking for and how to stand out in this ever-changing job market.
Mike:
Yeah, I think that’s why I was so excited. Shout out to Umer who was on the podcast a long time before he even joined Salesforce that connected all of us. But I love that both of you had the same but different lenses into the job market. And William, you set me up perfectly. So, I mean that’s the first question on my list, which is when you look at the Salesforce job market right now, specifically for the admin role, what are you seeing?
William Walsh:
Yeah, I think it’s definitely a more competitive market than it was a few years ago. I think there’s a lot of really good admins out there. So, just being that Salesforce admin and having a few certifications on your resume isn’t really necessarily enough anymore. What I’m seeing clients respond to is admins who really understand businesses behind the platform, whether it’s sales, service, operations, data, which I’m sure we’ll talk about a little bit more, but really admins who can show they’ve solved business problems in Salesforce are the ones that are standing out currently. People that can, again, not just be that general admin, but can differentiate themselves with whether it’s an AI tool or a specific industry, that’s kind of been the biggest thing that I’ve seen change. It’s become a much broader role. Again, a company would just look for someone who was able to manage users, build reports, handle workflows, keep the org up and running.
Now they really want someone who can be a real business partner for them, understand the data and automation integrations. So, I don’t think the admin role has necessarily become much of a different role, but it’s definitely, you want to add some more skill sets to just your generalist admin at this point.
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
Absolutely agree. I think we’re seeing a really important evolution and one that really follows a lot of what we’ve seen before in ERP and MCSC before where you’re getting a role that used to be about just configuration, build this, set this up. You had a lot of single seat admins that assist admin, a lot of people didn’t even call themselves Salesforce admins when I first started recruiting in this space, which is what made it so difficult. And now there’s this concentrated branding and it’s evolving into this governance and you really need to be able to stand out in ways that say, to William’s point, this is an outcome I can provide, not here’s the number of seats I can manage, but this is what I’m able to do in terms of business impact. I understand how this is going to affect what the top line is for the company, how this evolves into the mission. People need to understand the actual companies, not just the platform itself.
Mike:
Those are really good points, I think. And that’s one thing to jump off of too is so broader, I heard partnering with the organization, not just managing. Over the last few years then, what kind of roles or skills have changed or grew in terms of what employers are looking for in Salesforce admins? Maria, I’ll start with you.
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
Absolutely. One of the things I’ve seen the most is really that requirements literacy, not just being able to take a set of orders and execute it, but really be able to fine tune that, push back, make recommendations, be in front of what’s happening and have that longer future vision knowing that so many of these runways are going to be short with AI. Things are going to continue to change at such an insane pace that’s not going to slow down. It’s not, well, after this week, after this cycle, after this next set of release notes, things are going to calm down. They’re just not. And that resiliency means that when an admin has a set of requirements, they need to be able to show judgment and wisdom, not just knowledge holding.
Mike:
William, you mentioned in yours that there was a certain set of things you kind of look for, things that are changing. Could you expand on that?
William Walsh:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we all know AI has been the big point as of late over the last few years, and I think data is kind of the big one, right? You can have any AI tool in the world. If your data isn’t clean, it’s not going to work correctly for your business, right? And so, I think data’s a big one, automation’s a big one. And as we see AI show up more and more, you’re seeing a lot more demand for admin to have the experience with your specific industry clouds as well, your specific Salesforce products. And I think that people would honestly rather hire admin to understand, again, how to use Salesforce to improve business process rather than just someone who has that long list of certifications. I think when people first get into Salesforce early on, at least back in the day, it was, “Hey, get as many search as possible.” And search are great.
They get you in the door, but the real world experience is kind of what gets you over the finish line. And I think that’s super important for people to understand.
Mike:
So, we’ve danced a little bit on industry and William, you brought it up. I think Maria, your answers have alluded to it. If I’m a Salesforce admin or looking to become a Salesforce admin, and I have a lot of a certain industry perspective, let’s say Finserv or banking or automotive, I’m picking the big categories, should I really lean into that or should I just look for an admin role in any industry because I know Salesforce administration?
William Walsh:
Yeah, I would say either or, right? I think it totally depends on if you surely have a true love for that specific industry and working in that industry, you can definitely stick with it, but you just have to, again, not just be a generalist admin. I think within that industry, then you have to start diving a bit deeper into, again, if it’s Finserv, say specifically Revenue Cloud and more that you can do within Revenue Cloud and CPQ. And again, learning more AI integration tools that’ll help your specific business within that industry. Again, it’s like I said, not just being that generalist admin I think is the main part, but I also find that sometimes you can get yourself into a spot where I feel too niche, right? And when I’m looking for a role, I can only go for roles in this specific industry because that’s where my experience is.
And so, I can see where people have those pain points. I think, again, if that’s what you would really enjoy to do and that’s your passion, stick with it and just broaden yourself within that industry. Otherwise, it’s definitely, I always find being at a consultancy or being at a partner is always good because you get to have your hands on a few different platforms at once or get to be in a few different engagements to where you can really work on a Sales Cloud environment here, but then be in a Service Cloud org over here. And so, you get your hands on multiple different things and continue to grow your skill sets, not only in one specific industry, but all throughout all the Salesforce clouds.
Mike:
Maria, I’d love your thoughts. Should I lean into my industry first or should I lean into my admin skills and apply across the board?
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
It’s a very tricky question because ideally it’s one of those, well, it depends, the lawyer answer. On the surface level, I would say yes, lead into the industry because of how that supports the differentiator of understanding the business outcomes. If you are coming from banking, if you are coming from healthcare, if you are coming from education and re-skilling into Salesforce, you’re going to be able to speak more intelligently, especially at some of these, I’m going to use this phrase lightly now, entry level roles because you don’t have entry level understanding of what the company is trying to do, what kind of outcomes they’re looking to drive. And that’s going to really support what I said about that requirements, scrutiny, the wisdom, the choices that you’re making, and that’s going to be an important differentiator.
However, in today’s job market, I would not tell somebody to limit themselves to only applying to jobs inside of their industry because there is a transferability, there is a lot of change happening inside of all of these industries, and people at the end of the day need to pay their bills. And sometimes, there just may not be enough opportunities in a given industry that makes sense for them when they’re looking at jobs that are either available for remote, that are in their geographical area, if they’re looking at companies that are pushing RTO, et cetera. So, if somebody really had a passion to what William and I believe you alluded to earlier about an industry that maybe they don’t have deep experience in or maybe they don’t have a lot of career experience at all, finding ways to stand out and deepen that industry knowledge so that you can stand out, I think is just as important as having that deep industry experience and figuring it out.
Mike:
Again, you set me up perfect for what I was thinking because I was kind of hovering around this question, but let’s jump into this part of it. For each of you, when a candidate lands on your desk, what is it that makes them stand out versus others?
William Walsh:
Yeah, so I can start. I mean, like I said, I think for me, certifications matter. It shows commitment, it shows employers that they’ve got some confidence in your technical foundation, that kind of stuff. But what’s really important to me is when I sit down, not only look at a resume, but when I speak to someone, can they walk me through three really impactful, at least three really impactful kind of projects that they’ve delivered? And nine times out of 10, a client is going to want to talk to someone who can walk them through really impactful projects they’ve been able to deliver rather than someone who’s just got a list of certifications on their resume. So, I think that’s super important. Another thing is having a bit of technical ability as well. Again, having that crossover, differentiating yourself from just your generalist admin, someone that can.
Again, when I say technical sales, I do not mean coding Apex, but more so building and configuring and being able to do a lot of work with workflows nowadays. And again, having some AI focused tools that you’ve worked with in your current role. Most clients now are using AI one way or another, and when they’re hiring an admin, again, they want that person. A lot of times they are taking on the headache of trying to integrate that tool correctly, and it’s probably not their role. And so, they want to have someone that they can bring in right away and understand what exactly is going to work for their business and how they can best get their platform to where they need it to get to. So, like I said, I do look for certifications, they’re great, but at the same time, it’s really about real life impactful projects you’ve been able to deliver on and what your role was in those projects.
If you’re able to get a bit more technical and tell me you did some of the configuring yourself, that goes a long way when you put it in front of a client rather than, again, I was just kind of creating dashboards and all the other generalist admin stuff that we would usually look at five, six years ago.
Mike:
Yeah. Maria, I’d love your perspective on what makes a candidate stand out to you.
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
Yeah, I think there’s a handful of things. One, just being completely candid, that they look like a real candidate. The fake candidate’s a real thing now, that they have verifiable information that they are active in whether it’s LinkedIn, the Trailblazer community. I’m seeing posts that look like they’re written by a real person. I’ve seen a resume that looks like it’s written by a real person, just really to start at the surface level. And that can be really tricky because I have seen profiles, LinkedIn profiles, resumes, emails, communication, LinkedIn posts that because of trying to demonstrate this very, I think, professional demeanor and best practices, sometimes it can come across so boilerplate. My spidey sense tingles for a second and I catch myself going, “Is this person real?” And that is a real risk that people run now in polishing their information off. So, I’m just going to start at that surface level.
Once we’re actually interacting with a candidate and we verify this is a real person, not a bot, what really looks is that what’s driving a person’s? Where is the learning resiliency? Where is the resiliency within the stories that they are telling, not just the polished, “I was able to increase this by this percent and that percent.” That’s wonderful. Having those numbers is great. That is now the bare minimum. When somebody can say, “But,” adding to the star method, that an extra R, that reflection, “But now with this new technology, I would do it differently. But now knowing how our customer base changed six months later, I would do this. But now knowing that more and more companies are going to be absorbing other companies, I would approach this slightly differently.” Right?
That reflection piece of saying, not just giving me the story outcome, but how they would take that into a similar project going forward, or even if they’re at that level, right at that cusp of people leadership, how they would train somebody else based on their experience of going through those steps, that to me is a significant differentiator because that tells me that person has the ability to stay the long run, that they are not just looking at just having that list of facts and figures for the resume, the output, the promotions, but that they’re actually looking to build both within themselves and around them.
Mike:
So, along those lines, thinking of where candidates spend their time, because I mean, I’m old enough to remember that I used to have to go to a bookstore to look up resume templates and go buy special resume paper. Now everything’s electronic. I won’t date myself, but I did in high school have to check out the internet for 15 minutes at a time. It’s amazing we had anything done with dial-up back then, but we did. But you mentioned polish, and I think it’s crazy that there’s bots out there, but we’re talking about real humans. Where are the real humans putting too much energy into either their resume or their experience or something that’s not actually helping them in the hiring process?
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
Well, one of the top ways I think is just in their general job search. So, LinkedIn did a pretty big overhaul of their algorithm in 2025 to an algorithm called 360 Brew, and it really rewards humanity and consistency within the process, their post, their about section, their experience, the resume that’s uploaded, their interactions with recruiters on the backend, et cetera. And putting everything into a ChatGPT, a Claude, a AI of choice and spitting it out is actually. I’m finding a lot of very talented people are telling me, “Oh my gosh, three years ago I couldn’t open my LinkedIn because every recruiter from here to Singapore was in my DMs and now it’s just crickets.” And most of that is because everything is so polished and saturated and M-dashed and if not this, then that that it’s getting downgraded on the algorithms. And the same things happen, and that means that they’re not showing up high in the recruiter back end of LinkedIn as much as high in the results.
So, really being able to have a unique voice and tone and sounds like the person that shows up in the interview, it does matter. And it’s a hard line to draw because people want to present the best version of themselves, but that kind of certified human best version of themselves is mattering more and more.
Mike:
Yeah. I mean, it’s very tempting to feed your resume or your LinkedIn URL to AI, pick which one and have it spit stuff out. I mean, it can write how remarkable you are in some pretty punchy language that you’re like, “Oh, I don’t think I would’ve written that before.” But the other half of that is everyone else is doing it, so now yours sounds less human just like everyone’s. William, let’s take a different angle for you. Opposite of that, what are candidates sometimes underestimating they should spend time with that hiring managers are really looking for out of candidates?
William Walsh:
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s tough on the resume side of things. What I would tell people is communication is the number one thing. Like you both just hit on, your resume can be great. It can look like you are the number one person that should get this job, but at the end of the day, I think, again, an admin is kind of sitting between that business and the technology team, and they need to understand how to talk to VP of sales one minute. They need to understand how to talk to a developer the next minute, and communication is key. And so, it’s hard to say on paper, “Hey, what am I maybe overlooking here?” But it’s really the communication aspect, and that comes from working on projects, volunteering. If it’s tough to get a role, volunteer somewhere on a real project, get hands-on experience where you’ll be able to explain what you really did.
Again, I think it’s tough to say what people are overlooking on their resume. Again, everybody’s resume can look great. It’s really, once you get in front of someone, the communication aspect, because that’s the differentiator at this point. Like we just said, everybody’s got their resumes being made by an AI tool somewhere. They’re all going to look great. What are you like when we get on the phone? And if you are really able to, again, explain what you can do for a business, the value you can bring for a business, and not just your typical reading off your resume, which a lot of folks do, a lot of folks will just rely strictly on their resume and just go into an interview studying up their resume and the bullet points that they have in there so they can just hit those soon as a question comes up.
You need to be able to be a real person. People want to work with people they enjoy working with. I think that’s a big thing that a lot of times people forget. You can be the best candidate for a role, but if you aren’t clear with your communication, you don’t seem like an enjoyable person to work with on a daily basis, there’s a good chance they’ll go with someone that may have a lesser skillset just because, hey, we can train this person up to be where you are and we really enjoy working with them. Again, they’re clear with their communication. They can translate business needs and requirements to our technology team well. So, that stuff is what really I see matters the most once you get into that intro stage and meeting a client.
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
And just to add to that, William, I think the asking questions, not just having answers. I think your point about having the answers, the mission statements, the details memorized is so spot on because I think the risk of that is there isn’t that conversation where people are figuring it out together sometimes and showing up and saying, “I’m not sure, but here’s how I think I would approach the problem.” Or even just asking back, “Well, what’s your internal method? Where would you start?” And then taking that from there. Sometimes even within the not knowing, how people approach that situation of not knowing, I think is really underestimated of how to show up or coming back.
I had a candidate years ago who bombed a question, just stumbled and fumbled and got flustered and frustrated and 24, 48 hours later, sent me an email and said, “I looked it up. I actually didn’t know about this. Here’s what I learned. Here’s how I would approach it right now. I actually though this was really interesting. I found a community group. They have a call here. If anybody else struggles with this question, you can send them this link and they can learn more about it.” And actually gave me their references, the work that they did, and that’s what comes into that learning resiliency that was… I think people underestimate the ability to come back or not know and demonstrate how that not knowing makes them someone that would be enjoyable to work with, that the team could see themselves being with. In real life, you don’t have the answers sometimes when you’re figuring the problems out.
William Walsh:
I was just going to jump in there and say, what does a good admin do? They ask questions, right?
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
Yeah.
William Walsh:
You don’t get told to do something and then just put your head down and do it. Usually you want to know, “Hey, why do we want to do this? What is the value for the business that we’re able to do this?” Right?
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
100%.
William Walsh:
And so, you want to know what that outcome is going to lead to, or where in that business is this going to help support if we’re able to create this workflow this way or whatever the case may be. And so, a good admin asks questions and you have to have that same approach when you’re going into an interview. You have to, again, not just be there with. You have no idea how many times I get feedback from a client where they say, “Hey, they seem like they’re great, but they seem very robotic, right? They were just kind of reading off a sheet. Here’s question, answer, question, answer.” And a lot of times, clients want candidates to put them on their toes and ask questions that they might not even know the answers to. But for them, that’s in their head they’re going, “Oh wow, you know what? That’s great. I didn’t even think about that.”
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
And that can be a small failure of the hiring process as well because the roboticness happens on both sides. You have hiring managers that have their rubrics and going through, and it’s very important that we have non-biased criterion that we’re hiring towards the competencies and the skill sets. And also, there needs to be room in that interview process to have that conversation and measure someone not just on their. Did they guess the answer correctly? Did they memorize the right answer? Were they able to regurgitate that? But were they thoughtful? Did they have really good questions, inviting and making enough time and room for that instead of filling every single space with call and response?
Mike:
Yeah, I can’t agree more with both of what you’ve said. I think in the times that I’ve been interviewing for different positions, both myself and interviewing to fill positions for other teams, nine times out of 10, I enjoy it if the candidate doesn’t know the answer, but tells me their thought process to getting to an answer. I say an answer because they may not know if it’s correct or not until they continue to research it, but it’s understanding their thought process in that interview that I always wanted to know. At least for me, that’s what I’ve always found valuable.
William Walsh:
Absolutely. And you see a lot of times, there’s many different ways to do things within Salesforce, within many orgs. And a lot of times when people are interviewing, the main basis of it is, “I want to see how your mind works. I want to see how you get from point A to point B.” Not to say it’s wrong or right, but I’m curious. I think, again, like you just said, a lot of it is how does your mind work? And that’s a huge part of what we see on a lot of interviews as well. Not necessarily it was the wrong or right answer, because usually there’s a lot of right answers, but just how did you get there in your mind? How do you get from point A to B? It’s always interesting for people to see.
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
Curiosity is such an important word there because there’s such a performance to the interview process and whereas the actual job requires so much curiosity. And if you can demonstrate that, I think that’s going to be a significant differentiator toward and hit all the points I think we hit, making somebody be able to understand, “I understand what it’s going to be like to work with this person. Maybe they didn’t come to the right answer, but I feel like we could have the type of conversation that would yield the best answer, the learning resiliency, the ability to continue to develop knowledge.”
Mike:
Yeah. It’s interesting, Maria, you bring that up because on the admin relations team, we’ve done surveys and had some research done. More than a few times. And every single time, curiosity or curiousness is usually one or two on the list of traits. I want to jump ahead to that first job, but I want to think about it a little bit differently because for a long time in the ecosystem it was, do I become an admin? Do I become a consultant? I think it’s probably changed now where a lot of companies are hiring admins. A lot of, William, you brought it up. Some people are choosing to be consultants, but I also think there’s contracting work. And the bulk of the people I know do contracting work. And I kind of almost think of that as you can work for an organization, you can do consulting where you’re under somebody else’s shingle, or you can do contract work.
And I’d be curious, what is a trait or how would an admin, a person looking to get into that job role say, “Oh, I need to work for an organization and I’ll be a good fit or I’m really a good fit to be a contract admin or I really want to do consulting.” How would they find that or what is something they should look at themselves to determine what path of those three to go down?
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
I think to start, I can start on that one as I moved into the consultant contractor seat myself. I think looking at what part of the work excites you the most is important. If it’s that initial gathering the requirements, figuring it out, solving the problem, meeting new people, working with new teams, if that initial part of it is not what you overcome to get to the solution that then you maintain, then you continue to build upon, I think the contracting consulting often can tend to be a path that people will continue to stay very motivated in because there is a Groundhog’s Day to that type of work, right? You have to meet a lot of new people over and over again. You kind of very Sisyphean, you roll that boulder up the hill, you get to the top and boom, it’s right back down at the bottom with a new project.
Whereas somebody who enjoys finishing a project, scratching something off the to-do list, looking upon the Simba, everything the light touches is what you have configured landscape and then continuing to improve upon that probably is looking for more of that in-house seat, looking for more of that stability and is not going to enjoy that contract work where they’re just constantly inheriting a new mess, a new series of problems and nothing ever feels finished.
William Walsh:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I’m a big believer in contract work. I’ve done a lot of work with a lot of partners with contractors. I think if you’re trying to break into the ecosystem, I think it’s great. You get exposure to a lot of different environments like I kind of touched on before, different businesses, different problems. And a lot of it comes at a quicker speed. Again, if you were just at that solo in-house role, you’re dealing with your org and at the pace that your organization wants to go with that. And from an employer’s perspective, I think you’re able to actually point to projects, real projects that you’ve studied that you’ve worked on rather than just saying, “Hey, I’ve studied Salesforce. I’ve gotten my certifications.” And so, I think, again, people can help… What I think is always interesting is people sometimes feel like they have to completely start over if they’re trying to get their start in Salesforce.
And what I always try to tell people is use your previous career when you come into Salesforce, connect those dots. If you come from a sales background, you understand sales processes, right? If you come from a finance background, you understand financial processes. If you come from customer service, you understand that whole customer journey, right? And so, go into a role within Salesforce to where you can utilize your previous career and again, the business knowledge that can actually make you a better Salesforce admin is ultimately being able to… Again, the business knowledge can actually make you a better Salesforce admin because Salesforce is ultimately a business platform, right? So, if you have that experience, you can utilize that in multiple different ways in Salesforce.
And whether that’s with a partner, whether that’s in-house, I think, again, contracting is a great way to get your foot in the door. And there’s not much commitment on the client side either, so it’s a lot easier where a client, it’s almost, they can call it a try before they buy type of period. And it’s the same on both sides, right? I think it’s the same for a candidate as well, right? It’s for them to try out the role without much of a large commitment as well.
Mike:
I like that. I’m realizing we spent a lot of time from the admin perspective, which makes sense. It’s an admin podcast, but I do want to focus at least one question on employers, and I’m going to try and go right for the heart of the main thing. In both of your experiences, what is the number one thing employers are getting wrong when they’re writing admin job descriptions?
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
William, do you want to start on that one? I’m happy to jump in.
William Walsh:
Yeah, yeah, I can start on that one. I think, again, the funny part is, and Maria would probably say the same thing, I don’t know if anybody writes job descriptions anymore, unfortunately. And so, I think that’s a big problem is they go into, again, your ChatGPT or your clone and say, “Hey, create me a Salesforce admin job description.” And you look at a lot of them, it’s your basic, again, like we talked about your generalist admin kind of bullet points in there and people will apply and then they go to talk to people and then they start to realize these are all great generalist admins, but not what we need. And so, I think a lot of it comes on the employer side where they need to really have a human type up that job description, have someone who’s working with Salesforce every day in the business say exactly what our pain points are and what someone can come in and help us bring value right away.
And I think that’s the big issue. Like I said, most of the, I would say nine out of 10 job descriptions I see are written by some type of AI tool. And you can tell right away, you could copy and paste most of them and put them into the same job description for different companies, for different industries. They’re all basically the same. So, I think that’s on the employer to really be better at doing their due diligence on what we’re actually looking for. And when I work with a client, we’ll see it time and time again where, “Hey, we’re missing the mark here, we’re missing the mark here.” And that’s on us to do our due diligence to say, okay, what is really needed? Not just your Salesforce. I know you need a Salesforce admin, but what does your Salesforce admin look like compared to what this organization’s Salesforce admin might look like?
They can be totally different job titles and requirements, right? And so, employers need to do a much better job of actually describing what that role is going to look like and not just your basic, “Hey, we want someone who can, again, create flows and document requirements and all your basic kind of stuff.” Right? So, I think that’s what I would say is most of the stuff I see is AI written and they don’t really take their time and then they find two, three months down the road, why have we still not found this person? Maybe it’s because we’re not targeting the right audience.
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
100% agree. I’ll put a bold prediction that if in three to six months you go and start looking at admin jobs, how many of them are going to have completely retired certs still listed as the relevant or we had talked about it before, must have five years of experience in something that has existed in five months. There is a basic lack of understanding of what they’re looking for in the job description. And a lot of time it’s a speed thing, right? People want to go for, “Okay, we want to hit same as the candidates. They want to hit the keywords, they want to hit a high search, they want to show up on the right people’s feed.” So, a lot of times it’s kind of a regurgitation, it’s thrown into AI. It’s dusting off an old job description from the last time they hired, whether that was three years or three months ago and reposting it.
And what employers really need to be doing, it’s something that I work with a lot of employers on is looking forward in the requisition. I need somebody who is going to join us for this thing that we’re doing, not just a list of what we’ve needed up until now, right? Showing where that investment is going to be and having that path in mind, not just, I need someone who checks this boxes and great drinking game in recruiting and hiring is hit the ground running, right? You’ll be blasted. I need someone who can hit the ground running and said, “Okay, when we get to the finish line, what do they do then?” Because you have to think forward. Understanding what that rubric is and what the weighting is around things. I can’t tell you what, especially in, I would say 2012 through ’17, you saw the job descriptions, excellent verbal communication skills and jobs that are not client facing, right?
Being clear about what the job actually requires and making sure that those requirements fit, that they’re just not the grab bag of keywords that people are just used to seeing, but say looking at, “Hey, what does the data judgment look like? How good are they at requirements gathering? How are we going to actually measure that in the interview process? Why is that important? Who is it important for? What should that look like? What does success look like in the past?” But also what could success look like in the future and not narrowing it down so tightly. And then the last piece, and I’ll say the kind of small kind of controversial thing is I think more companies need to pay for the work product from the interviews. A lot of times they give them real business problems and there is a very exploitative aspect of interviewing where sometimes you get a lot of knowledge from very excellent candidates and these candidates are going on a lot of job interviews.
It’s exhaustive. You go on LinkedIn and see, I interviewed a hundred times to get this job. I applied to 200 jobs to get this. If somebody gets to the end of the process and you are going to ask them to do a take home assignment, the best way you can get the most out of them, give them a reasonable contractor rate, give them work that you can use and get the information from them and really narrow it down because you will be really intense about who you get to that final process if you know you have to pay for that work product. And candidates would really respect, I think, being able to give work that matters, especially if they’re looking for work.
Mike:
Wow, I like that. That’s very different than anything I’ve ever heard. And it would make me rethink a lot of the stuff that I’ve delivered because I know in the interviews I’ve been asked to deliver some sort of project or here’s an org and here’s a scenario that we gave 20 other candidates. We want to see what you do. I like that twist to be really something tangible. When I push my presenters in admin track for Dreamforce or TDX, I always say, when you get done with your presentation, think about what the person’s going to do when they stand up. What do they do next? And I’m going to do the same and hold myself accountable for when we end the podcast, the listener doesn’t just take out their earbuds or probably switch over to Apple Music or something and finish the rest of their dog walk.
But if you were, because in my world, it would be really cool to get the three of us on stage at TDX, which is about six months from now. But if somebody was listening today and looking for an admin job, maybe they’re employed, maybe it’s their first job, maybe it’s their third job, depending on no matter where they’re at, where would you tell them to focus their energy?
William Walsh:
I guess I could jump in on this one, Maria. And I would just say, I think we’ve hit on it a few times, but be very clear about what you actually want to be hired for, right? I think a lot of people’s resumes can be a bit ambiguous in that. Make your resume and LinkedIn reflect that as well, right? Don’t make a hiring manager dig through four or five pages to figure out what you can do. I’d spend a lot of time networking. I’d go to Salesforce as an awesome ecosystem. We talked about Mid-Atlantic Dreaming, which myself and Maria were at. We’ve talked about obviously Dreamforce coming up and TDX. And so, there’s a bunch of networking events out there and obviously myself and Maria are also part of user groups. There’s a ton of user groups out there that are obviously free to join, right? Be involved, network.
Again, talk to Salesforce professionals, talk to as many recruiters as you can. I know sometimes, people can think recruiters can be annoying, but I promise you, they’re just getting you in front of people that you would’ve otherwise not been in front of. Our goal is to just introduce you to other people. And so, get as many recruiters as possible, consulting partners. The job market is super competitive, right? You can’t rely exclusively on applying to jobs on LinkedIn all day long. You have to know people in the ecosystem. You have to get your name out there, get your face out there, make it known that you’re a part of this ecosystem and this ecosystem is super welcoming and everybody wants to see everybody succeed. So, you get to network a bit, get a chance to get to some user groups, some local events, and you’ll see how quickly people around you start to root for you and start to put your resume in front of people that they know in the ecosystem as well.
And so, that’s the one thing that I think some people miss out on. They kind of really rely on just, “Hey, I applied to 20 jobs today on LinkedIn.” Again, get out there, network with people in the ecosystem. This ecosystem is awesome and super welcoming. I don’t know if I’ve ever met somebody in this ecosystem that wasn’t rooting for everybody else around them. Everybody can win. So, I would say network as much as possible. There’s a ton of different things out there for people that are trying to make their way into the ecosystem to get into. And again, you get in front of the right people, you get yourself, make some friends in the ecosystem and you’ll see how quickly things start to move in the right direction for you.
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
Yeah, I 100% agree. I think the networking aspect has not changed. With everything that has changed in the last 15, 20 years in Salesforce, what has not changed is the power of community, the power of showing up, asking questions and getting connected. And that does not mean you have to be the most active on social media. You can be active in real life, but really showing up and participating in community events, the events that are available, listening to the podcast, et cetera, is so important to engage. The other thing I would say is to really look at your LinkedIn profile, your resume, your email communications, and also your networking prep and kind of filter everything through.
Why are you asking? Why this person? Why this company? Why this outcome? So, what? Why does it matter inside of all of it? And then the how. So, when you’re answering interview questions, when you’re networking, when you’re sharing your elevator pitch, really honing in on those three aspects I think are going to yield more human conversations versus just a bullet list brag show. People are trying to get so much information out. We forget that within that efficiency, it still needs to be a conversation. So, really practicing that human aspect and giving people context and understanding and not trying to be perfect, but just showing up consistently I think is going to be the most important thing that people can do. And try to un-AI your LinkedIn information. I cannot stress that enough. Your headline, your about, and your experience section should match.
It should be consistent and it should have some sort of human aspect to it because I don’t think people realize how many profiles and information get passed over because of either algorithmically, it’s too polished or the lead is buried.
Mike:
Yeah. I mean, I think that’s a perfect way to end this podcast. I couldn’t think of it any better. I mean, I know the more than handful of people I’ve interviewed, every single one of them has come back to a user group or some sort of Salesforce event that, hey, I went to and I didn’t have a job and I walked around the room and sure enough, a couple weeks later, people were calling me or an employer called me because they saw me and got to talk with me, which essentially elevated you above that stack of resumes that they were already looking at. So, I appreciate it. Maria, William, thank you for spending this time going over what is an ever-changing job market, what is constantly being invaded by AI and uninvaded by AI, I think, and helping admins try to find that niche and try to find those jobs that are really rewarding for them because I know the ones that do end up presenting everywhere and you can always just tell it in them.
So, thanks for spending the time with us and thanks for helping out the admin community.
Maria Alvarez-Zarrilli:
Well, thank you so much.
William Walsh:
Awesome. Thank you so much for having us.
Mike:
Well, I really want to thank Maria and William for being on the podcast. It was great that I could be connected with you to talk about everything that admins are looking for in this job market and really help us make sense of what employers are actually looking for in Salesforce admins right now. For me, I think the big takeaway is that job search can’t be just about adding another certification or sending out more applications. You’ve got to be clear about the problems you’ve solved, show how you think, ask good questions, and most importantly, get involved in the Salesforce community so people know who you are and what you can do. Now I want to thank you for listening and if you know a Salesforce admin who’s looking for their next opportunity, share this episode with them. Until next time, we’ll see you in the cloud.
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