Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Janet Elliott, Manager of Solution Architecture at Kicksaw and 2022 Salesforce MVP.

Join us as we chat about finding your voice and why you should become a Salesforce speaker.

You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Janet Elliott.

Why you should speak at a Salesforce event

Janet got started in the ecosystem as a project manager and admin for Salesforce in 3 BT (Before Trailhead) a.k.a. 2011. Eventually, she moved into becoming a Solution Architect. Along the way, she’s been a speaker at multiple TrailblazerDX conferences, Dreamforce, and more, which is why we wanted to bring her on the pod. “Speaking about Salesforce is something I’ve really found a passion for,” Janet says.

You might be wondering, with so many great speakers at Salesforce events, why anyone would want to hear from you. The truth is that there are relatively few people compared to the number of slots at all the different Salesforce events. We’re looking for new voices, and Janet has a lot to say about how you can get started as a new speaker.

Overcoming imposter syndrome

“I got a huge confidence boost from the first time I spoke,” Janet says, “because I realized that people were interested in what I had to say and I didn’t need to be an absolute expert on the topic beforehand.” It just so happens that her first time was at Salesforce, in front of hundreds of people—quite the way to rip off the band-aid.

One big piece of advice Janet has is to attend as many events as you can, something that’s a lot easier to do with more events offering virtual options. As you’re sitting in the audience, think about how you’re listening to the speakers. Do you want them to succeed or fail? Are you judging them harshly or are you rooting for them? That’s how you manage imposter syndrome (which is totally normal!): realize that the audience wants you to succeed.

Tips for talks

You don’t need to be an expert to speak about a topic. Give yourself permission to say “I don’t know the answer to that but here’s where I would start looking.” People don’t want to hear from you because they don’t know how to use Google—they’re there to hear your story and learn from your experiences.

Finally, as Shakespeare said, “the readiness is all.” You need to put time and thought into how you prepare for your talk. Janet recommends rehearsing a few times and recording yourself, so you can sit in the audience’s chair and see how you’re coming across.

Janet has more great tips about picking topics, finding your story, and where to get started so be sure to listen to the full episode.

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Full show transcript

Mike Gerholdt:
Welcome to the Salesforce Admins Podcast, where we talk about product, community, and career to help you become an awesome admin. And this week we’re talking with Janet Elliott, who is the manager solution architecture about finding your voice and becoming a Salesforce speaker. I know, I hear you, like, no, it’s too hard to speak. Everyone, there’s a million speakers in the Salesforce ecosystem. They don’t need me to speak. Wrong. And that’s why I had Janet on, because she gave a wonderful presentation at Dreamforce that talked about her journey in becoming a Salesforce speaker and some of the lessons she learned. She talks about how she practiced.
It’s a really great episode that we have, and I hope it inspires you to think about you know what, I know some stuff, and I need to get out there and tell my story because, spoiler alert, everyone needs to see you on stage. There is somebody, I promise you, in that audience that will benefit from seeing someone like yourself on stage presenting about a topic. So with that, I’ve got a great episode lined up. Let’s get Janet on the podcast. So, Janet, welcome to the podcast.

Janet Elliott:
Awesome. I’m really glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Mike Gerholdt:
Well, it’s exciting to have somebody on to talk about becoming a Salesforce speaker, but let’s start with how you got started in the Salesforce ecosystem.

Janet Elliott:
Yeah, great. I have been around for a while, so I got started in the ecosystem back in 2011. BT, I call it, before Trailhead. And I started out as a project manager handling Salesforce projects, and then sort of dove into becoming an admin, and then eventually gaining some certifications and some experience, and now working as a solution architect. Definitely have gone through the certification route, so 12 times certified and super excited to have been nominated and accepted as a Salesforce MVP in 2022, so that’s been a fun journey. And then as we’ll talk about today, I’ve been a speaker at multiple Trailblazer or DX conferences, Dreamforce, and community group meetings. So it’s something I’ve really found a passion for, speaking about Salesforce.

Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, it’s a thing we share. I enjoy speaking about Salesforce. Not the first time I’ve heard BT, by the way, before Trailhead.

Janet Elliott:
Oh, that wasn’t original.

Mike Gerholdt:
Nope. Sorry. For this episode it is. But I think it’s important, so you talked about finding your voice, tips for becoming a Salesforce speaker at Dreamforce ’22, and without kind of going through that, I mean, I think you probably saw something that I saw in the ecosystem, which is there’s a whole lot of people with really great ideas that aren’t speaking, and then there’s a few people on stage at a lot of events speaking.

Janet Elliott:
Yeah. And it’s funny because my origin story, it might be a little bit different in that I didn’t originally start speaking based on … I mean, sure I wanted to share information, but the original idea was because I wanted to get a pass to Dreamforce. So that sort of started my journey in that our company sent a certain amount of people and in order to ensure that I was able to go, I thought I better come up with the topic and submit it and see if we can get accepted to speak. And at the time I picked something technical that I felt really comfortable with, because as you mentioned, I think one of the reasons people are nervous about it is because they think maybe they don’t know enough about the topic or people are going to judge them. So I originally picked something I felt really comfortable with in order to speak about it and started gaining some confidence from that point.

Mike Gerholdt:
As you were building this presentation, what were some of the other things that came up around maybe people judged me or I don’t know enough, that seemed to be a common theme?

Janet Elliott:
Well, what was interesting was we got accepted in the developer track, and at that point, I wasn’t even an architect, so I was coming at it from a project management perspective and was speaking with the developer. So even though I knew the topic well, I was sure that the developers in the audience were going to be judging me. But again, I felt really comfortable with the topic from a technical perspective, but it was more that nervousness of getting up in front of 200 people and speaking about this topic and being afraid of maybe what questions they’re going to ask and maybe I’m not going to know the answer to that. But I can tell you that what I experienced was because of our preparation, we did a really good job, I felt, and I got a huge confidence boost from that first time I spoke because I realized that, I guess that’s where I found my voice, the origin story, is that I realized that people were interested in what I had to say and I didn’t need to be an absolute expert on the topic beforehand.

Mike Gerholdt:
So you mentioned you spoke at other events before Dreamforce. Do you remember your first speaking opportunity?

Janet Elliott:
So actually, no, Dreamforce was the first speaking opportunity.

Mike Gerholdt:
Oh wow.

Janet Elliott:
We just dove right into the deep end.

Mike Gerholdt:
I mean, that’s learning the swim in the ocean.

Janet Elliott:
Yes. And being accepted for a theater session, and at that point, it was like 200 people, so we just went for it. We went for the big time, first time around.

Mike Gerholdt:
Okay, I’ve experienced this and I think it’s someplace that we can dive deeper into, but imposter syndrome.

Janet Elliott:
Yeah.

Mike Gerholdt:
Tell me about you experiencing imposter syndrome and what you did to maybe work through it.

Janet Elliott:
Yeah, that’s a great question. Because we dove in to Dreamforce first, we didn’t go through those baby steps, but once I had that initial experience, I thought, oh, maybe I can speak on other topics. But what really sort of helped me get over the imposter syndrome was going to other events and seeing other people speak. And what was interesting was COVID, we started with all the virtual events, and all of a sudden all of these events opened up that you could attend virtually that before you weren’t able to go to. So I dove head in and just attended every virtual event that there was. There were community conferences. I went to different groups, developer user groups and admin user groups, and just heard other people speak.
And from that, the different perspectives that I saw, it helped me understand that as an audience member, how I was reacting to their sessions, that’s the same way that people would react to me. So it sort of gave me confidence going and just listening to all of the other speakers and getting ideas like how are they interacting with the audience or what is my impression of them, and I’m coming away with a positive feeling with this speaker. What style are they using? So really what helped me get over that imposter syndrome was going and watching other people’s sessions.

Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, that’s really good. I mean, that’s one thing I know I do a ton is I love to watch, especially our online, any virtual events that we do and see other people present, and also watch the audience if you can see them in the camera too, are they engaging with the speaker or is the speaker losing them?

Janet Elliott:
Yeah. And just getting some of those tips and tricks, like we all know sessions that we’ve been to where we walk away and we just have this gut feeling like, God, that was a really good session and I really am motivated by it, and I really learned something from it. So seeing those successful speakers, and to be truthful, I’ve seen speakers who weren’t as effective and sort of learning my lessons there. And every time I speak, I try to learn something from it and gain some confidence there, that’s really what’s helped me get over the imposter syndrome.

Mike Gerholdt:
I think one of the things, and I’m thinking back to some of my early speaking, one of the things that people struggle with is, I’m going to get up there and I’m going to be done, and then the questions are going to come and I’m not going to know how to answer them. How do you tackle questions when you’re presenting

Janet Elliott:
That in and of itself is a great question. I think I rely on my architect mindset there. And it’s the idea that when you’re in a meeting with a client, you’re going to get asked questions, you’re going to get asked technical questions, and you have to be okay with admitting that maybe you don’t know the answer, but you’ll get it, or the source, or you can help people understand in other ways. And so I feel comfortable if I know something, I’m going to provide the answer or I’m going to give my opinion. But if I don’t, I’ve become comfortable saying, you know what, I’m not sure of the answer of that, but let me connect you with someone who I know can answer that or let me give you that source. So it’s kind of becoming comfortable with the fact that you don’t need to be the absolute expert on your topic, but you know where to go and get the answers.

Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah. And I also think it can be, I don’t know, humbling to also say, you know what, that’s a good question, let me follow up with you. Because it can be really hard to all of a sudden turn and be point, like an entire Wikipedia of knowledge on a specific topic that you could tackle 200 people’s questions. That’s absurd to think.

Janet Elliott:
Yes, for sure. And I think we all have to admit that Salesforce knowledge is so huge that we’ve got to admit that of course we don’t know everything, but knowing where to go to look for the answers is part of the answer. And also again, it just goes back to that feeling comfortable that you don’t need to be an expert to speak on the topic. You’ve got to provide some sort of value back to the audience. You need to tell your story, like what can you share about your experience with this? That’s really what they’re there for. Everyone can go and Google some answers or talk to some experts, but they’re there to get your perspective, which I think is really important. Your experiences with it and what your story is, that’s really what makes for a good session.

Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, I would agree. You put one bullet on your presentation that I think is very salient. You say, “Salesforce knowledge is a spectrum.” And I bring that up because I think that’s the other kind of crux that people lean against when they’re, “I don’t want to present.” They either throw out, “The questions are going to be too hard,” or, “Nobody’s going to find my stuff interesting,” or, “I don’t know enough.” Can you expand on what you mean by Salesforce knowledge as a spectrum?

Janet Elliott:
Yes, and I sort of have experience with that. I’ve been in the ecosystem for quite a while, but it wasn’t until 2018 that I actually went to a user group because I was so sure that everyone was talking about CTA topics, like we’re going to get heavy into code and it’s going to be all these experts, and I had imposter syndrome, like I’m not sure if I can go and interact with these people, they’re going to be experts. But what I found as I got involved in the community is that there is this spectrum. Even now, there’s a lot of people who it’s their day one with Salesforce, they’re starting new, they’re logging into Trailhead. And what I tell people is maybe you’re on day two, so you’re only one day ahead of them, but your experiences with your day one, your story, things you can share about your experience, confidence building is going to help that person who’s at day one. So it’s kind of turning around, looking back and helping the people lift up the people behind you.
Everybody isn’t an expert at everything, but where you’re at in your journey, that’s worth telling your story and your experiences, and maybe some of the stumbles that you’ve had along the way helps inform those people who are maybe less experienced than you.

Mike Gerholdt:
Yep. No, I mean everybody has a day one. I remember mine. Let’s talk about that preparation part. So I was taking this a little bit on a journey of getting out of our heads and then thinking through how do you get ready? Because I believe in society we are somehow told the story that everybody’s really just a good presenter. Back in the day, we saw Steve Jobs get up on stage and we see these great orators just walk out and hold a room. And if you’ve ever been to a big arena show, I’ve gone to see comics in big venues, how they hold a room just literally with the power of the microphone. We’re somehow sold this fallacy that, they’re just good at it. Right. Talk about how you prepared to get ready to speak at Dreamforce and what your preparation is to prepare to speak at even a community or user group event.

Janet Elliott:
Yeah, I feel like I have, hopefully, come a long way with this. For that initial presentation, I was speaking with a co-presenter, and I can’t even count the number of hours we spent not only preparing our slides and our topic, just really getting into the technical details because it was a technical discussion, but also practicing. We made the mistake of initially trying to memorize our talk track, like this is your slide, here’s exactly what you’re going to say. And that really brings up the nerves because you’re feeling like you have to memorize it and then just repeat it. And that’s not a really good way to do a good presentation.
But over time, what we found, because we practiced this presentation so many times, is it we became comfortable with just we could glance at the slide and we could just speak extemporaneously on the topic. So the practice, that’s where it comes in. Now, I videotape myself even if I’m going to go and give a, videotape, that’s an old word, word, I record myself on the computer.

Mike Gerholdt:
That’s okay. I still say it too.

Janet Elliott:
I get my camcorder out.

Mike Gerholdt:
Set your DVR out, you’re like, what is that?

Janet Elliott:
So I’m streaming.

Mike Gerholdt:
Streaming on your laser disc.

Janet Elliott:
Yes. So I record myself giving the presentation multiple times and I just see how things feel, and I’m like, oh, I wish I would’ve said that differently, and then just doing it over and over. So that preparation of being able to just, you kind of know what your slides are, the order, and you look at it and you just know what you want to say. And that’s one of the ways that I’ve tried to improve is, I turn my camera on, I record it, and then I’m watching myself. Like does that make sense, and I’m making improvements. That’s the biggest preparation difference that I’ve made.
And then the other thing, again, going back to watching other presentations and seeing what tactics other people use. Something I’ve really tried to incorporate now that I’m speaking more is engaging with the audience. If you’re just up there speaking and just going through your bullet points in your slide, the audience needs to be engaged. So I’m either, I’m asking questions, I’m sort of giving a poll, I’m asking for feedback. I always try to find one or two points in my presentation where I’m asking the audience a question for them to ponder or asking them to raise their hands, so I find that that really helps with the engagement. So that’s one of the things in preparation I try to do is identify those engagement points to help just make it a more successful presentation.

Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, I think what you said of speaking extemporaneously and just knowing what you want to say about a slide is quite possibly the most powerful piece of feedback you can give somebody. Because I often have to remind presenters, no one but you knows your talk track, so no one but you knows if you missed a sentence because they’re not looking at a script and expecting you to follow it. This isn’t sitting down and watching Shakespeare where everybody knows the play.

Janet Elliott:
Right.

Mike Gerholdt:
This is them watching what you are presenting and being able to give that information in a compelling way. You mentioned the audience. Is there something that as a presenter while you’re up on stage and you’re going through your content or just in front of a room that you look for to see if they’re paying attention or not?

Janet Elliott:
That’s a good point, and that’s probably something I need to improve. I’ll be honest, I’ve spoken a lot now. I’ve spoken at multiple Dreamforces and community groups and community conferences. I’m still really nervous right before I go up there, even though I feel comfortable that I know my topic, I’m still really nervous. So I’ve tried to get better at making eye contact with people in the audience and not just staring off into space. But I’ll be honest with you, I’m still in my head about doing the talk that I just make sure that people aren’t on their phones and stuff, but I probably do need to pay more attention to what the audience reaction is. I do find that with these engagement points that I’ve been trying to incorporate, that that’s when I look out to the audience, are people raising their hands or are people nodding their heads at some of the things I’m asking them? So I think that’s something that I look for.

Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, I mean it’s really hard. It’s almost like counting change while you’re driving down the highway.

Janet Elliott:
I did want to, if you don’t mind, something you said earlier made me think of something that I think will help people when they’re trying to find a topic to speak on.

Mike Gerholdt:
Oh, please dive into that.

Janet Elliott:
And it has to do with being able to speak on a topic without worrying about a talk track. So my speaker journey was this first presentation that we did, it was very technical. It was about enterprise data migrations. So it’s kind of a dry topic. You’re talking about the tools you use and the processes. It’s not something I was quote-unquote passionate about. I didn’t feel like a strong passion for it, but it’s something I knew technically that I could speak about. We didn’t really share our perspective on it or our journey or some funny moment with it. It was really a dry technical presentation.
And I actually did that presentation a couple different times, and I thought, I can do this presentation, but I don’t feel like awesome about it. I don’t feel like I’m sharing my passion for anything. So one of the turning points in my speaker journey was finding something that I felt passionate about that I wanted to give back to the community and share, and that I had a perspective on, like my perspective, I had a story or a journey I’d gone through. I wanted to share that back. And I thought that would probably make a better presentation. And also going back to the idea of I’ve seen speakers who’ve inspired me, and so I wanted to share my journey with gaining my platform developer one certification and the journey I’d gone through with that and sort of the ups and downs as a way of giving back.
And what I found very dramatically was that when I was preparing that presentation, it wasn’t as arduous of a task to think of how to put the slides together. And when I got up on stage, I feel, hopefully, that my passion for it came through and I think that made a better presentation, like here’s my point of view and I hope that you can gain something from this. And I knew what I wanted the audience to get out of it. So it was a very dramatic difference for me presenting those two different types of topics in that I identified something I was passionate about, had a perspective, had some interesting stories about, and it was so much easier to get up on stage.
And even if in the middle of the presentation I got a little mixed up where I was like, oh, that’s right, I’m on this slide, I forgot what I was going to say here, I could just speak about it. I could pull up that presentation right now and I could just speak about it. So that was really the turning point for me as I’ve identified different things to speak about is, am I passionate about it and do I have stories to share with people.

Mike Gerholdt:
I think you answered this question in what you just said, but I want to ask it anyway because your title is Find Your Voice, and so my question to you was, and I think we just heard it, but what does finding your voice mean to you?

Janet Elliott:
It’s so funny, I mean, that’s something I am passionate about is not only having people share their voice, but talking through how much of an impact other people sharing their voice in the community, their perspective, their experience, representation of seeing other people like me, maybe it was a female architect or maybe it was someone who’d been an admin and got their platform developer one certification and became an architect, it was that diversity of thought and the people that I was seeing up there that helped me find my passion. Sorry, I forgot the question.

Mike Gerholdt:
No, you’re spot on. I mean, a lot of that is exactly being that. I mean, I think a lot of preparation that people go through when they’re a speaker, and I heard it in what you were talking about, is they put presentations together that they feel the audience wants and then they walk through it. But there wasn’t the Janet element. And I think you described that in your first presentation. And it was later as you put subsequent presentations together, it’s kind of that layering of what is stuff that I am knowledgeable in but also passionate for and can speak about. And that to me sounds like in your journey when you found your voice, but also what finding your voice means.
Because I’ve watched countless presentations where I can tell the speaker is emulating someone or a style that they’ve seen, but it isn’t them. And I feel like that’s what they’re trying to do and it’s part of the learning curve. Like when you’re learning to play sports or a musical item, you’re trying to emulate someone else first because you don’t know your own style, and it’s learning your style and what you’re interested in and what you’re passionate for that then becomes that Venn diagram.

Janet Elliott:
Yes. There’s a lot of talk in the community about finding your brand or where do you fit in. There a lot of content out there. And I think my advice is don’t try to force, I need to speak about this, or here there’s an area that needs addressing, I’m going to pick this topic and that’s what I’m going to speak about. It’s a little more natural that when I sat back and I thought, where can I fit in, like where’s my voice going to have an impact and what have I gone through, and then it just sort of bubbled up that helping inspire people to take on platform developer one from a no-code background, which is one of the topics that I speak on, is something that I can talk about. So it’s a little more natural to think that up versus thinking, oh, I really need to speak about this particular topic, because if you’re not passionate about it’s just not going to be as good of a presentation.

Mike Gerholdt:
Right. You started off by learning to swim in the ocean. If you were to go back in time, the DeLorean is out of the shop, and start your speaker journey over again, what would you advise others to do in terms of finding their voice, becoming comfortable as a speaker in the Salesforce ecosystem, and getting started on that journey?

Janet Elliott:
The first thing is something that I mentioned before, go to your local user groups, look at Salesforce+ and some of the YouTube videos and watch people speak on topics and cover some different topics just to get that initial idea of how people speak in the ecosystem. So that’s the first step, is just getting comfortable with what that looks like. And then I think the first step that I always tell people is you’ve got your local user group, they are the friendliest audience you’re going to find. They’re rooting for you. You can make mistakes. It’s a very casual environment. That’s the best place. And you can just do a quick 10-minute presentation. Maybe something like you have a solution to an interesting user story that you had at work, it can be something simple like that, or maybe how you’re using one of the new Salesforce tools, or just your Salesforce journey, how did you get started and what tools did you use along the way? Maybe don’t overthink what the topic should be, just you’ve got 10 minutes, what’s unique about you, your perspective, your journey can you share with that user group? That’s going to be the friendliest way to start gaining some confidence.
And then once you feel okay there and you’re like, okay, I feel comfortable with this, I’m learning from every time I speak, I’m thinking about how I can do it better, the Dream It events, we’ve got a lot of community conferences out there, and that would be the next step is maybe submitting an abstract to a Dream It event, and then seeing if you get accepted. And if you do get accepted, there’s a lot of us out there, myself included, that you can practice with us. There’s many people you can reach out to. I’ve given advice to people on their abstracts or watched them practice their presentation and giving them tips. So lots of people out there available to give you some tips and tricks.

Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, no, I would agree. I mean, there’s always people out there to give you tons of feedback. As we kind of wrap up, sometimes it can be a little overwhelming to think of, oh, I got to do all this. I should do all this. If you’re listening to this podcast and you just finished, what, Janet, would be the next thing you would say for somebody to do right after they listen to this and they want to become a speaker?

Janet Elliott:
Something that I realized, and this is the way my brain works, is that when I’m not thinking about something, ideas come to my mind. So I would say have a place, a piece of paper, or Evernote, or Quip, or wherever you just jot down ideas, a whiteboard. I will be out for a walk and an idea will come to mind when I’m not thinking about something I want to speak on. So open up your mind just for those ideas to flow and just write them down. You’ll be listening to someone speaking, and you’ll be like, oh, that’s an interesting topic, maybe I should speak about that, or you’ll read a blog article, or you’ll have something happen at work. And just always have that mindset in the back of your mind to find interesting topics. I just sort of always have that in the back of my mind and I’ll jot them down. And over time, you can look at the list and you’ll start to see things that are interesting to you.
So I think just being open as you go through your day to identify those topics that seem interesting. I don’t know if other people’s brain works that way, but mine is very abstract and I have papers where I just jot down random ideas of things that maybe I want to speak about.

Mike Gerholdt:
I would say mine’s similar. I think the dog walk for me is usually the time when I get a lot of emails written in my head.

Janet Elliott:
For sure.

Mike Gerholdt:
Or ideas and drafts for emails or communications. So it’s often when you’re not thinking about something that it frees you up to actually have those thoughts come in.

Janet Elliott:
Definitely.

Mike Gerholdt:
Janet, this is-

Janet Elliott:
Just kind of having-

Mike Gerholdt:
Oh, go ahead.

Janet Elliott:
I was saying just have that speaker’s mindset always will help those ideas surface when you go through your day.

Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, I mean, I turn to that a lot of, how can I turn this into content? Is this a good story, would this make a good story? Maybe I’m also of the Seinfeld generation where somebody getting up and going to coffee at a coffee shop is a half-hour comedy, so not overthinking things. But yes. Janet, I want to thank you for coming on. This was great, and I feel like we’re on the verge of inspiring more people to become speakers in the ecosystem.

Janet Elliott:
Yeah, I know that some people are introverts. It’s hard. You get up there. I’m nervous every single time. But I promise you that the inspiration that you get from speaking on the topic, interacting with other people, and giving back to the community is really worth the journey.

Mike Gerholdt:
Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. Well, thank you so much for taking time out to being on the pod.

Janet Elliott:
Yeah, thank you for having me.

Mike Gerholdt:
Well, I think we could probably do another hour with Janet easily on finding your voice and practicing to give a presentation. It was really great to have her on, have her share some of that, and have her share her journey to constructing presentations, working through imposter syndrome. That’s a thing. I promise you, not only just for speaking but for other things as well. Imposter syndrome is something that can be very difficult to get through. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I had fun talking with Janet about it.
And of course, if you want to learn more about all things Salesforce admin, go to admin.salesforce.com to find more resources, including any of the links that we mentioned in this episode, as well as a full transcript. Now, you can stay up to date with us on social. We are @salesforceadmns. No, I on Twitter. And of course, my co-host, Gillian Bruce is on Twitter. She is @gilliankbruce. I’m on Twitter as well. I am @MikeGerholdt, so you can go ahead and give us a follow there. And with that, stay safe, stay awesome. And of course, stay tuned for the next episode. We’ll see you in the cloud.

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